The four month long interview

A grey-haired man wearing glasses and a blue suit, standing in an modern office.
Robert DeNiro in The Intern. His character is a 70-year old intern who returns to the work force.

About three years ago I left my full-time job. Since then, I’ve been making deliberate steps towards being able to use design and technology for social good. As someone who, for decades, had embraced routine and focused on specializing my skills–as opposed to being a generalist–these steps represent a period of tremendous personal and professional growth. It has been very rewarding.

One step I took was to explore non-traditional technology roles. For several years, I worked as a service designer at Capacity Canada, a Waterloo-based non-profit, helping to close the gap between tech, design, and social good. Another step involved going back to school and in a few months I’ll be finishing up a Masters degree in Human-Computer Interaction from Iowa State University. As a result of these steps, I’ve become a stronger facilitator, a better designer, a more well-rounded scientist and, I hope, a better human.

And, just before Christmas and at the age of 45, I completed my first internship.


I have always tried to keep abreast of the local Kitchener-Waterloo technology ecosystem (does anyone else remember reading Gary Will’s Waterloo Tech Digest the minute it arrived via email?). For the past five years or so I’ve also been keeping a list of the companies that match my personal and professional goal to use design and technology for social good. While there are, at any time, thousands of technology-related companies in the region, my personal list usually contains less than a dozen names.

Of the nine companies that I had on my list this year, I approached five. For most, I applied with a tailored cover letter and email introduction, as well as an up to date résumé. I explained my background and asked if they would be open to a four month ‘co-op style’ engagement.

At this point, I want to be clear that my four month work term/internship was not a co-op placement (although they were similar in some important ways). I think it is important to recognize the tremendous value that formal co-op programs add to the experience for all parties involved. So, while Iowa State University does not have a co-op program for graduate students, I felt I could design my own and still get some of the benefits provided by more formal co-op programs.

Of the five companies I reached out to, one didn’t reply. Another interviewed me but said they weren’t sure what to do with me (this was, of course, euphemistic). One invited me to a half-day open house event which (very) quickly helped me decide that we likely weren’t a good fit for each other.

But, thankfully, two seemed like they were good fits. [I wrapped up the first placement in December and am two weeks into my second placement.]


For someone with more than two decades in the trenches, this direction might seem a bit odd. But it was driven largely by a change in my approach to assessing work opportunities and how that work affects my life in real ways. In the past, my criteria for evaluating jobs were:

  • Technical challenge. Does this problem interest me intellectually?
  • Compensation. Is this role compensated at or above market value?

That’s really it. Any other criteria were way, way down the list. I’m older and, hopefully, wiser now and there is a lot more to my personal evaluation of fit with an employer. Taking four months to learn about a potential long term employment situation just seems smart.


This first internship exposed me to some incredible technology and a wonderfully smart and friendly team of professionals. As an intern, I felt I had permission to learn as much as contribute.

I learned–or had reinforced–several things as the result of my internship:

  • Don’t wear headphones all the time. This gives you an opportunity to hear what others are working on, how they’re problem solving, and how different teams/individuals/components relate. Working without headphones is a low-cost way to learn about the organization, team process, and product.
  • Listen more. As a senior-level professional, I often speak more than I should (“…but I want to provide value!” — doh!). Within the first couple days, I realized that I could learn a tremendous amount from everyone on the team and shutting up was a good start.
  • Ask a lot of questions. If you don’t know the answer to a question, others might not either, especially if the organization or team is compartmentalized in some way (e.g., hardware vs. software teams). Ask questions about the entire business, not just that little piece you’re working on today. As anyone who has taught knows, being able to answer a question clearly and succinctly is a strong metric for domain competency…and the whole team benefits from ensuing discussion. Life is too short to not ask questions.
  • Re-frame with purpose. Great co-op students teach as much as they learn during a placement–they provide a new perspective and diversity of experience that can inform design and problem solving work. One of the most valuable behaviours a student can employ is to share their experience and perspective in an effort to re-frame the challenge. Start with how you might use a product or solution and call attention to any gaps you identify. Ask about design constraints and assumptions; this gives the team an opportunity (permission?) to reassess and explain them.
  • Interview the organization. As much as you’ll be evaluated during your co-op placement (especially if administered by your school), a four month co-op engagement also represents the perfect opportunity to observe and evaluate the organization’s culture, its development process, and how it deals with challenges. If you’re an undergraduate, this company could become your first full-time job after school. If you’re older, like I am, it is important to take the time to become comfortable and confident in what you’re looking for in a full-time role, and considering how the organization measures up. Ask the questions you want to ask, not just the ones you think you should ask; once you’re in the door, conversations can be a bit more collegial.
  • Be a little selfish. As much as you want to earn some money and contribute to the work of the organization, recognize that the business relationship you all agreed to means you should be explicitly learning stuff during your internship (to be fair, you should always be learning, internship or not). Hopefully you’ll be asked what you’d like to work on or learn; this is the time to openly and professionally discuss your goals for the term.
  • Be humble and kind. New jobs make many of us anxious. We may try to be someone we’re not in order to make a good impression. Often we get scared of screwing up future opportunities. Work hard, sure, but be humble and kind too. Ask for help when you need it. As someone who has lead teams, asking for help when you need it is a sign of maturity and goes a long way to help the team.
  • Be bold. Sure, not every company will think you’re serious when you ask if they want an older co-op…but some agree it’s a great idea, and those are the ones thinking outside the box already!

I started my second internship two weeks ago. While both internship roles have been technical in nature, their respective cultures, environments, and the work involved are incredibly different from each other. And that’s pretty cool.

I feel overwhelmingly privileged to be able to take the time to pivot mid-career, and explore opportunities through internships. If you find yourself with a changing set of priorities, consider taking four months to ‘interview' what may be your next long term team.

Feel free to reach out to me on Twitter and let me know what you think about mid-career internships!

Extra special thanks to the folks at AdHawk Microsystems and Zeitspace for being open to a middle-aged intern; I’m no DeNiro.

Matthew Reynolds

Matthew Reynolds

Kitchener, Ontario, Canada